Curse

persuadu · May 15, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

How many times has someone said to you “I am going to report you to ANET and get you banned”? Is charging 25k to run a dungeon a banning offense? Is charging 1k per fame a banning offense? What really constitutes an offensive name?

Sometimes this is a function of GM’s observing a behavior and taking action. More often than not it is the result of someone /reporting you or filing a complaint on the ANET website. I personally have been banned twice for what they consider naming infractions, not because some GM saw me, but because someone wanted to grief me, once for getting them kicked out of my guild and another because they felt that I was charging too much for a dungeon run. I quickly found out that an offensive name means somebody didn’t like it and complained. Once I realized that the GM was not going to give me my name back or lift my ban, I came up with some other names and asked him if they were appropriate. Guess what, he would not say one way or the other as to if they are offensive or not. If there is a standard for this, then he should have been able to tell me, but he refused, because the decision is arbitrary and favors the complaining party. We as victims have no recourse when a GM makes a decision, right or wrong.

It seems as though it is standard to issue punitive actions in this game when someone complains. Someone complained and the GM handling the complaint takes punitive action. If you appeal it, the GM would have to say he was wrong for punishing you in the first place so they come up with “reasons” as to why, even if they are not based in anything the EULA says. This system favors the griefer as well as protects GM’s who make decisions based on something other than Code of Conduct.

What we need is a definitive set of standards for what is appropriate and what is not. We also need an appeals system that allows us to take it one step further if we feel the GM is unfairly or inappropriately interpreting the rules of conduct.

Can someone from ANET give us a definitive answer as to whether or not Dungeon Runs or Fame Farming is illegal? Is there a price value that makes it bannable? What exactly constitutes SPAM? Is there a threshold, how long do you have to wait before you can repeat something? Where can we go to appeal a GM’s judgments? Given the wild range of decisions I have seen them make, I think they need some form of oversight in their judgments.

It would be nice if when people got banned, it was not a surprise and they should not have to wonder if they are going to get banned for something. It would also be nice if a mistake is made by a GM, that something can be done to correct it that does not solely rely on the character of that GM and their ability to recognize when they have erroneously punished someone.

I am not as interested in hearing what we the customers have to say about this as I am to hear what ANET has to say about this. We should not have to play in fear of being banned because either we or the GM’s don’t know what is a banning offense.

Mr. G · May 15, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

am not as interested in hearing what we the customers have to say about this as I am to hear what ANET has to say about this

try talking to them then, not on a community forum

Karate Jesus · May 15, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

If you want to hear what Anet's official stance on this is, then read the EULA. The fame thing is still a question as to whether it's bannable or not, but the rest is all written up in fancy fonts with small-print and everything. Go enjoy a nice, long read.

Lonesamurai · May 15, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Running upto Martin Kerstein with a naked male warrior in GToB and dance/humping his character?

wait, lets find out... be back later

persuadu · May 15, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

try talking to them then, not on a community forum

I am not AS interested, but I think it is worth discussing. This is a community issue and the community deserves an answer to it.

Thanks for your insightful contribution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

If you want to hear what Anet's official stance on this is, then read the EULA.

I have read the EULA and the COC and there are a lot of grey areas, and not once did I see anything about dungeon runs or fame farming. That is why I bring this up. There needs to be defined policy so we know exactly what is acceptable and what is not.

Thanks for your insightful contribution.

Constructive comments welcome.

Tullzinski · May 15, 2009, 07:22 PM // 19:22

you need to review this:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10367402

This really covered the whole name thing....

Mordakai · May 15, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

It's a judgement call.

And frankly, I'd rather defer to ArenaNet's judgement than "majority vote" on the internets.

But, in the end, it's not our call to make. Guild Wars is not a democracy.

PS: Your name is "Harry's Been Shaved?" Why even go there, especially knowing that Anet seems hypersensitive to name complaints?

fusa · May 15, 2009, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Try reading the EULA, if you don't understand that, go back to school and try to learn how to read. Otherwise act like a normal person, if you can't do that you have serious social issues. The people that get banned are just maladjusted teenagers trying to take out their issues of rejection from society against people who they can hide from on the internet.

IronSheik · May 15, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I got banned for Mong O Lloyd, even me being a realist was surprised, shows how easily people get butthurt

dilan155 · May 15, 2009, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Just because you read the EULA doesnt means squat, a-net like many other companies

allowed themselves a lot of moving room regarding conduct. there are plenty of grey

areas that are defined only by the people who take action against bannable offenses.

on one hand i agree with banning fame farmers because that means disrupting the other

team, but on the other hand if the team is good then they are gonna win anyway,

doesnt make a difference that someone was there and they leeched some fame points,

specially the team agreed to bring that party member. As for names, again its

subjective to whoever happened to be reviewing the name, some people are really

offended by certain names, others are just being ****s. only thing you can do is talk to

a-net.

A11Eur0 · May 15, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

knowing that Anet seems hypersensitive to name complaints?

So the Gillette company makes sex toys or something now?

Harry, a Dude, has been shaved. Wow...that's so offensive. To who, Hassidic Jews and Amish guys named Harold?

Mr. G · May 15, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

I am not AS interested, but I think it is worth discussing. This is a community issue and the community deserves an answer to it.

Thanks for your insightful contribution.

Oh I'm sorry, I assumed that when you said (multiple times) that you wanted anet to answer and not the community what you meant was that you wanted anet to answer and not the community.

Besides hasn't this been talked over a 1000 times? Odds are if you think what your about to do might get you banned theres going to be a shady element that deserves a ban.

Martin Alvito · May 15, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Sup Harry. Thoughtful post.

The short answer is that it is never in ANet's interest to clarify why they take action. By building the servers, the devs essentially have created a restricted area (think a club) where they can create and enforce standards for membership.

Under the law, ANet can set whatever standards for membership they want so long as they apply said standards equitably. It follows that the way to minimize legal exposure is to make statutes as vague as possible.

Of course, the problem with this maxim is that it leads to arbitrary and unpredictable enforcement. Hence concepts such as the Naming Policy intended to standardize GM outputs.

While clearly defined policy is in the interest of the player base, the player base does not set policy. As a result, you can expect ANet to minimize their exposure to legal threats. One component of such a strategy is to be random in enforcement policy to the point that a victim that is targeted in a non-random abuse of the rules cannot be isolated.

This situation will get worse before it improves.

A11Eur0 · May 15, 2009, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

Oh I'm sorry, I assumed that when you said (multiple times) that you wanted anet to answer and not the community what you meant was that you wanted anet to answer and not the community.

Besides hasn't this been talked over a 1000 times? Odds are if you think what your about to do might get you banned theres going to be a shady element that deserves a ban.

How many times have you seen representatives from Anet post on Guru?

There's even a dev tracker board that shows every post that a dev has made on Guru.

They read the forums. They can give answers on the forums. Stop being a douchebag.

Junato · May 15, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Dear Persuadu,

I agree on the thesis of your argument. That there should be more information relating to why people get banned. I personally, did not get banned, however it troubles me to notice the complaints I find in this forum.

There should be solutions to these fuzzy problems. The excuse for banning someone should not be given by saying just, an example 'you have violated code 11'. Which some lawyer like people would understand. I find that ANet is more geared by solving complaints by how they press their legal matter. It would be like a lawyer talking about law to an accountant where the accountant knows little of his laws in respect to what is being discussed.

Overmore, I find communication is the biggest necessity in all aspects of a society since, it dictates the information that is being relayed. In all due respect did you even bother to read the terms and agreements before installing. I know that sounds like I'm pressing you to do so. However, for contracts as long as in a contract has all the information the presentation can be as bad as it can be and doesn't have to be good. It would be nice to in specific situations have the codes of conduct handy for as you are to make a name. Who would read though... that's the problem.

Later,
Junato

Mordakai · May 15, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

So the Gillette company makes sex toys or something now?

Harry, a Dude, has been shaved. Wow...that's so offensive. To who, Hassidic Jews and Amish guys named Harold?

I didn't say I agreed with it, I'm just saying "Harry's Been Shaved" is bound to raise some eyebrows. (Yes, it could be interpreted as sexual. Unless he's a swimmer. Then it's OK.

)

I don't understand why people try to be cute, and just don't name their character Harry the Hairless or something.

It's like "Beaver Formation". Why even risk it?

nkuvu · May 15, 2009, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

There's even a dev tracker board that shows every post that a dev has made on Guru.

Link, please? I've never seen a dev post on Guru. I've seen Regina and Martin post, but they're Community Relations, not developers. No disrespect intended, but the two are very different jobs.

Then again, I haven't spent as much time on Guru as some others, so I may have just missed the posts (thus the request for a link).

Quote:

They read the forums. They can give answers on the forums.

If the developers read the forums, why did Regina and Martin both recently post that they'd pass along information to the developers? Wouldn't that be kind of redundant?

On the original topic, I'm confused. You (referring to the OP here) say that you've been threatened to be reported for runs/farming. But since you've never been banned... wouldn't that kind of imply that those two actions are not bannable offenses?

Names are a judgment call, that's why there is not a single definitive list of offensive names. And I think that asking for input from ArenaNet in regards to this is doomed to failure. Would you be able to list every name that would be offensive to you?

BenjZee · May 15, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Isn't fame different because its unsportsmanship and champ points etc is ladder manipulation...

Black Metal · May 15, 2009, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I want to know if a personal real life friend gives the game up and gives me his account (no real world nor in game transaction involved), will that get me banned?

Parson Brown · May 15, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

I want to know if a personal real life friend gives the game up and gives me his account (no real world nor in game transaction involved), will that get me banned?

It would be against the EULA, but really, who would ever know?

Edit, and on topic, I can't see see how that name is offensive.